Legislature(1997 - 1998)

02/05/1997 03:21 PM House L&C

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
          HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE                          
                        February 5, 1997                                       
                           3:21 p.m.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Norman Rokeberg, Chairman                                      
 Representative John Cowdery                                                   
 Representative Bill Hudson                                                    
 Representative Jerry Sanders                                                  
 Representative Joe Ryan                                                       
 Representative Tom Brice                                                      
 Representative Gene Kubina                                                    
                                                                               
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
                                                                               
 All members present                                                           
                                                                               
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
                                                                               
 HOUSE BILL NO. 68                                                             
 "An Act relating to the exemption from the requirement for payment            
 for overtime under a voluntary work hour plan; and providing for an           
 effective date."                                                              
                                                                               
      - MOVED CSHB 68(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                    
                                                                               
 HOUSE BILL NO. 31                                                             
 "An Act relating to civil liability for certain false allegations             
 or material misstatements of fact in a civil pleading or                      
 proceeding, for certain improper acts relating to signing a civil             
 pleading, for certain improper acts relating to civil pleadings or            
 proceedings, for making an intentional false statement of a                   
 material fact, for acting on a civil claim or defense without                 
 probable cause, or for acting for a purpose other than proper                 
 adjudication of a civil claim; amending Rules 13(e) and 82(b),                
 Alaska Rules of Civil Procedure; and providing for an effective               
 date."                                                                        
                                                                               
      - REMOVED FROM AGENDA                                                    
                                                                               
 (* First public hearing)                                                      
                                                                               
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB  68                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: VOLUNTARY FLEXIBLE WORK PLAN: OVERTIME                           
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) THERRIAULT, Kelly, Vezey                        
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
 01/15/97        67    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/15/97        67    (H)   LABOR & COMMERCE                                  
 01/27/97              (H)   L&C AT  3:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 01/27/97              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 01/29/97              (H)   L&C AT  3:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 01/29/97              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 01/29/97       175    (H)   COSPONSOR REMOVED:  JAMES                         
 02/03/97              (H)   L&C AT  3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 02/03/97              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 02/05/97              (H)   L&C AT  3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                        
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 MILT BEHR, District Representative                                            
 International Union of Operating                                              
   Engineers Local 302                                                         
 P.O. Box 71938                                                                
 Fairbanks, Alaska 99707                                                       
 Telephone:  (907) 452-8131                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 68.                                 
                                                                               
 DAN SIMIEN                                                                    
 Laborers Union Local 942                                                      
 315 Barnette                                                                  
 Fairbanks, Alaska 99701                                                       
 Telephone:  (907) 456-4584                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 68.                                 
                                                                               
 TIM SHARP                                                                     
 Laborers Union Local 942                                                      
 1284 Lois Lane                                                                
 Fairbanks, Alaska 99712                                                       
 Telephone:  (907) 456-4584                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 68.                                 
                                                                               
 PETE BLAIR                                                                    
 International Brotherhood of                                                  
   Electrical Workers                                                          
 P.O. Box 72204                                                                
 Fairbanks, Alaska 99707                                                       
 Telephone:  (907) 456-1547                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 68.                                 
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GENE THERRIAULT                                                
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 517                                                    
 Juneau, Alaska 99701                                                          
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4797                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of HB 68.                                        
                                                                               
 DWIGHT PERKINS, Special Assistant                                             
 Office of the Commissioner                                                    
 Department of Labor                                                           
 P.O. Box 21149                                                                
 Juneau, Alaska 99802-1149                                                     
 Telephone:  (907) 465-2700                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions on HB 68.                             
                                                                               
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-8, SIDE A                                                             
 Number 001                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN NORMAN ROKEBERG called the House Labor and Commerce                  
 Standing Committee to order at 3:21 p.m.  All members were present            
 at the call to order.                                                         
                                                                               
 HB 68 - VOLUNTARY FLEXIBLE WORK PLAN: OVERTIME                              
                                                                               
 Number 050                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG announced the committee would continue the                  
 hearing on HB 68, "An Act relating to the exemption from the                  
 requirement for payment for overtime under a voluntary work hour              
 plan; and providing for an effective date."                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE indicated there are some people who wish             
 to testify via teleconference.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 139                                                                    
                                                                               
 MILT BEHR, District Representative, International Union of                    
 Operating Engineers Local 302, testified via teleconference from              
 Fairbanks.  He said his organization would like to make it clear              
 that they support the mining industry in the state, hope that their           
 ventures return large profits for their investors and provide good            
 paying and safe jobs for workers.  He said they do not think HB 68            
 is a very good bill as there are several issues that need to be               
 addressed.  The employees of the mine who want a 12-hour rotation             
 so they can have more time off in a month.  An employer who says,             
 "Okay, in trade for this we want you to give up your overtime                 
 compensation or we will keep you on this current schedule which is            
 the worst we could possibly arrange for."                                     
                                                                               
 MR. BEHR said there are 250 people who have signed a petition to              
 give away their overtime if the legislature sees fit to change                
 state statute.  Not being heard from are hundreds of other Alaskan            
 mine workers who don't even know HB 68 exists.  He said his                   
 organization feels there are many solutions.  In speaking with                
 workers from the mine, they feel that there is only one solution              
 because they are not aware of the other options to resolve this               
 issue.  The employees have been presented with one solution by the            
 company and that is to change the state's overtime statutes.  Mr.             
 Behr urged the committee members not to pass HB 68 as there are               
 many ways to achieve the goals of both workers and the mine company           
 without changing state statute.  He stated HB 68 will negatively              
 affect a great number of workers throughout the state.                        
                                                                               
 Number 330                                                                    
                                                                               
 DAN SIMIEN, Laborers Union Local 942, was next to address the                 
 committee via teleconference from Fairbanks.  He referred to the              
 issue of a 12-hour day for straight time pay as a "thin edge of the           
 wedge."  The argument of what is considered a work day is                     
 intensifying across the nation.  It has become an issue of politics           
 and of what party you belong to.  He noted there was a recent                 
 article in the Fairbanks Daily New Miner which outlined a movement            
 to change workers' hours across the nation.  It is basically being            
 driven by the business executives and the Republican Party.  He               
 urged the committee not to use party politics to ignore the working           
 man's rights.  Alaska was recently listed as number one in the                
 nation as far as the ability to earn a decent wage and live.  He              
 said he believes we need fight to maintain that.                              
                                                                               
 MR. SIMIEN explained an example that this is not something new as             
 his organization has some people working for Aleyska at Pump                  
 Station 8 who have a 75-mile daily commute to go to work.  They               
 work within the confines of the law and no effort has been made to            
 change the law to make it any easier for them.  They are aware of             
 their situation and they move forward with no loss of pay.  Of                
 course they had time taken away from their family life, but that is           
 part of the game.  He urged the committee not to make this an issue           
 of politics and to look at what is good for the workers across the            
 state.  He urged the committee to put an end to HB 68.  He                    
 requested that Amax and their employees to get together and try to            
 find a viable alternative.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 540                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COWDERY asked Mr. Simien if he is against any             
 12-hour work days, including any that might be negotiated by                  
 organized labor.                                                              
                                                                               
 MR. SIMIEN explained in their negotiations, representing the                  
 laborers, they don't have any 12-hour days that allow their                   
 employees to be paid straight time.  He noted they have nothing               
 against 12-hour days, but their contracts require premium pay for             
 anything over 8 hours.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 642                                                                    
                                                                               
 TIM SHARP, Laborers Union Local 942, testified via teleconference             
 from Fairbanks.  He referred to the 1920s when miners were striking           
 for an 8-hour day and said the more things change, the more they              
 remain the same.  Mr. Sharp referred to the question Representative           
 Cowdery asked Mr. Simien regarding the 12-hour day and said he                
 would say, "Get rid of them for everybody if that's choice we're              
 offered here instead of going with this bad House bill."  Mr. Sharp           
 said he is already on record supporting more time off for the Fort            
 Knox employees, better conditions and a real retirement program for           
 them, but not at the expense of all other Alaskan workers.  He said           
 he can't understand how anyone can be so naive as to believe that             
 this bill will not have far reaching affects to other industries as           
 time goes on.  As most state legislators should be aware, a large             
 percentage of Alaskan workers, union and nonunion, make the                   
 majority of their yearly income during the summer months working              
 long hours.  This is because of the unique and harsh winter                   
 conditions we have here.  How will they be effected next year or              
 the year after due to the next round of excuses, such as global               
 competition, industry appeals for relief or new worker driven                 
 petitions where they're asked to give back even more of their                 
 earning power.  Mr. Sharp referred to the comparison made between             
 nurses and cab drivers.  He said, "Most of you are very much aware            
 nurses were considered professional and, therefore, exempt under a            
 lot of the wage and hour standards."  People should ask themselves            
 why so many union and nonunion workers, who do not traditionally              
 represent mine workers and have nothing to gain or lose directly by           
 this bill's passage, could be so adamantly opposed to it.  He said            
 it is not because Fort Know is a nonunion operation.  It is because           
 they see the same thing he does which is how this bad legislation             
 will be used as the thin edge of the wedge to further (indisc.)               
 workers hard earned gains.  Mr. Sharp said let industry come when             
 the standardized price of doing business can be paid to our workers           
 based on the price of gold per ounce.  Let the gold stay in the               
 ground or pay the employees what they deserve in time and a half              
 for hours worked over eight or ten, with the exemption that Fort              
 Knox has not even applied for.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 854                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY indicated he has received a list of all the            
 companies that come under the exempt rating.  He said he believes             
 there are 83 pages of different entities/companies.  Representative           
 Cowdery gave committee members a copy of the information.                     
                                                                               
 Number 935                                                                    
                                                                               
 PETE BLAIR, International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers,                  
 testified via teleconference from Fairbanks.  He said it would be             
 very difficult to embellish on any of the words that have been                
 spoken in the hearings on HB 68.  He said it is important that it             
 is understood that a fight for the 8-hour day is a demand to                  
 receive compensation for those hours worked over the 8 hours.  He             
 stated he does not support HB 68.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 955                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GENE THERRIAULT, sponsor of HB 68, said he                     
 appreciates the time the committee has taken to review the bill and           
 he also appreciated working with the Chair on the draft that is               
 before the committee.  He stated in coming up with the language for           
 the draft, they have tried to address many of the concerns that               
 have been expressed as far as the bill having far reaching impacts            
 on other sections of our society that he had not intended.  He                
 indicated the impact would now be restricted to those people                  
 employed by surface metal mining operations operating year-round.             
 Representative Therriault said he thinks the scope of the bill is             
 fairly narrow.  It wasn't his intent to impact seasonal                       
 construction workers on the road projects and people of that                  
 nature.  He said he gave committee members the most recent                    
 information he has received with regards to  how other states treat           
 the provisions for overtime pay.  He referred to there being a                
 number of people who have testified about Hay Market riots and hard           
 fought concessions won by organized labor and said he thinks what             
 they're referring to is the federal statute that mandates that                
 overtime be paid after 40 hours, not after 8 hours per day, but               
 after 40 hours.  If you take the 40 hours and divide it into the              
 standard five day workweek, it comes out to 8 hours a day, but the            
 law of the land, with regards to the provision of overtime, is that           
 you're paid overtime after 40 hours worked in a consecutive week.             
 That is exactly what is being asked for in the bill.  If the miners           
 worked the 12-hour shifts and more than 40 hours in any given week,           
 they would be paid overtime.  Representative Therriault said there            
 are only three states in the nation that deviates from this federal           
 standard, Alaska, California and Nevada.  He explained Colorado               
 actually pays overtime after 12 hours.  California is currently               
 discussing adopting the federal standard.  When people talk about             
 the labor riots in the 1800s, the concessions that were won was the           
 40-hour workweek and that the overtime would be paid after 40 hours           
 and not after 8 hours in a given day.                                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT referred to the information                         
 Representative Cowdery gave committee members and said it makes               
 reference to the contract under which the current Department of               
 Correction employees work.  He said the municipal workers who work            
 at the Fairbanks power plant, running the power generation, are               
 organized by Local 302 and work 12-hour days.  They aren't paid for           
 overtime until they go past 40 hours in a given workweek.  He said            
 he believes they are working the same shift that the miners at Fort           
 Knox want, nothing more or nothing less.  Representative Therriault           
 indicated there are provisions that it must be voluntary so there             
 shouldn't be an impact to other miners of surface metal mining                
 operations because this provision wouldn't be able to kick in                 
 unless they entered into a voluntary agreement with their employer.           
 If the commissioner suspects any coercion or that signing a                   
 petition was a condition of employment, he could turn down the                
 application.                                                                  
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT said there was a reference made to the              
 bill that went through the system last year which dealt with the              
 number of hours that could be worked at the face of a hard rock               
 mine.  It had nothing to do with the provisions to pay overtime.              
 He referred to the Fairbanks Daily News Miner article which spoke             
 about a debate that is taking place at the national level and said            
 in looking over the article, there was an indication from the                 
 President that he is willing to discuss some possible changes.  He            
 said that is a realization where perhaps there will be a bipartisan           
 move that will give workers flexibility.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1297                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY explained he had received a facsimile which            
 included information he had requested from the Department of                  
 Corrections relating to their work schedule.  He explained the                
 information says that of the 1,014 institutional staff,                       
 approximately 80 percent or 818 work 84-hour workweeks.  That is 7            
 / 12s, week on, week off schedule.  He noted it doesn't include any           
 of the supervisors that work there.  Representative Cowdery gave              
 committee members a copy of the facsimile for their files.                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG questioned whether the employees are paid for               
 overtime.                                                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY said he had asked that question and didn't             
 receive an answer.  He indicated he would inquire further.                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT noted he wanted to make the point that              
 passage of the legislation in no way impacts any group of workers             
 from unionizing at any time that they feel like their pay or                  
 benefit package is not adequate or if they feel their employer                
 isn't addressing grievances in a timely fashion.  He noted that               
 currently, the workers don't feel a compulsion to unionize because            
 the relationship they have with their employer is very good.  They            
 feel frustrated that the only way they would be able to get                   
 flexibility to structure the workweek in the way they desire is to            
 unionize.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1426                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE noted that on the facsimile cover sheet there            
 might be a problem.  He said according to the Department of                   
 Corrections, the information is confidential and should not be                
 disseminated or given out to anyone other then the person listed on           
 the facsimile sheet.  Representative Brice asked if there was a               
 problem.                                                                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY said the information was requested by his              
 office and he thinks the cover sheet is standard for their                    
 transmissions.                                                                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said if it's boiler plate, just ignore it.               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY indicated he didn't say that.  He said he              
 thinks the language on the cover sheet is fairly standard language.           
 Representative Cowdery indicated he would phone the department for            
 clarification.                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1491                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG noted Representative Cowdery distributed a list             
 to the committee members of a large number of companies.  He asked            
 Representative Cowdery to provide a cover letter for that                     
 information.                                                                  
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY noted the information is a flex plan list              
 that was provided by the Department of Labor.                                 
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said the information is a list of existing flex             
 plans that have been approved by the commissioner.                            
                                                                               
 Number 1561                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON asked Representative Therriault if he              
 knows how the overtime is applied to last year's 10-hour situation.           
 He asked if the 40-hour overtime provision apply.                             
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT indicated he couldn't answer that                   
 question.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1584                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JOE RYAN indicated he had drafted the legislation as           
 a staff person for Representative Vezey.  He stated, "It allowed 10           
 hours at the work face which portal to portal provided actually 12            
 hours - time to get to the work face, work 10 hours, time to get              
 back up to the (indisc.).  Anything over 8 hours a day was                    
 overtime, time and a half."                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1631                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JERRY SANDERS asked if he is misunderstanding                  
 Representative Therriault or did he hear him say that the workers             
 are unhappy with not being able to work the 12-hour shifts and that           
 they're thinking about joining the union as that is the only option           
 they have other than the legislature changing the law in the state            
 for everybody.                                                                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT explained the current law exempts anyone            
 who is operating under a collective bargaining agreement from this            
 section of the statutes.  There is no requirement that overtime be            
 paid after 8 hours if you are operating under a collective                    
 bargaining agreement.  He said if you want flexibility to work with           
 an employer, you have to unionize.  Passage of the legislation                
 wouldn't preclude the workers at Fort Knox from unionizing,                   
 however, the current relationship between the employee and employer           
 is very good.  They see no need to unionize as they feel they can             
 negotiate directly with their employer and don't need the services            
 of a middle man at this point.                                                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS said if the legislation isn't passed, the              
 workers can still organize and achieve this goal without the help             
 of the state and without affecting the other laborers in the state.           
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT explained if the bill isn't passed and              
 the workers wanted to exercise flexibility, they would have to                
 unionize.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1725                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON said the workers have the right to organize,            
 bargain collectively and then it gets to be a matter of the                   
 bargaining process.  It doesn't necessarily mean that you succeed             
 in getting what you want.                                                     
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if the workers could work a 10-hour flex              
 work plan under the existing statute.                                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT indicated the lab workers at Fort Knox              
 have submitted and have approved a 10-hour flex plan.  He said the            
 testimony from Mr. Flanagan, Department of Labor, is that you                 
 couldn't get a 10-hour exemption and then work the additional 2               
 hours and get paid overtime.  The language is such that the                   
 Department of Law says that if you get a waiver to work 10 hours,             
 that's all you can work.                                                      
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Mr. Perkins if there was an approved                  
 flexible work plan in existing statute, it could only go to 10                
 hours, therefore, you couldn't work 12 hours and be paid for 2                
 hours of overtime under the existing statute.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1800                                                                   
                                                                               
 DWIGHT PERKINS, Special Assistant, Office of the Commissioner                 
 Department of Labor, said that is his understanding.                          
                                                                               
 Number 1814                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked if the legislation would apply to the            
 one mine or all of the mines.                                                 
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT said there was a headline last week that            
 it would impact two mines.  The surface metal mining operation that           
 this may apply to is Cominco.  He noted in discussions with                   
 representatives from Cominco the previous week, they indicated they           
 see absolutely no impact on their workforce from the legislation.             
 He said with their operation, people travel to the mine and live at           
 the mine for an extensive period of time.  They're currently paying           
 the overtime and they do not feel like their employees would be               
 agreeable to enter into this voluntary agreement.  They felt like             
 if the company, in any form, tried to coerce them to enter into a             
 voluntary agreement, the workers would likely unionize.                       
 Representative Therriault said the language in the committee                  
 substitute makes it very clear that it doesn't impact those people            
 who are covered by collective bargaining.  It doesn't impact those            
 people who are currently under a voluntary 10-hour work plan.  It             
 only applies to employees at surface metal mining operation that              
 operates year-round.  He said seasonal placer mining operations,              
 coal mines, gravel pits and accompanying construction will not be             
 impacted.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1903                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said he thinks that unfortunately it will                
 establish a standard for upcoming mines and developments to                   
 establish a 12-hour work day without overtime.  Unfortunately, we             
 can't narrow this down specifically to Fort Knox as it would become           
 a specialty issue, very localized legislation and, therefore,                 
 unconstitutional.  He said he doesn't think that the workers at               
 Fort Knox haven't been given all the options available to them.               
 His understanding is that there hasn't been negotiations between              
 the workers and the managers of the mine to develop alternative               
 schedules.  Representative Brice said it hasn't been brought up in            
 testimony that there was an organized effort to have any type of              
 in-depth negotiations.  He said he believes this would impact the             
 workers of today and will impact the workers of the future in this            
 state.  He asked, "How are we going to protect against the use of             
 `you sign the petition or you don't go to work'."  That still                 
 hasn't been adequately addressed.  Representative Brice noted the             
 Department of Labor is vastly underfunded.  He said he has concerns           
 that the legislature is being asked to do something with very                 
 little overview and not adequate time and discussion on some of the           
 more futuristic impacts that the bill will have.                              
                                                                               
 Number 2043                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT explained the workers did go to                     
 management with a request to go to the 12-hour day.  Unfortunately,           
 management had to tell them that state law precluded them from                
 doing that.  He said it was his understanding in speaking with the            
 workers that it was not a proposal from management to the workers,            
 the workers went to management.  With regards to the funding of the           
 Department of Labor budget, all departments are feeling our current           
 financial pinch.  He said the way that the bill has been narrowed,            
 there won't be too many more names added to the list that is being            
 reviewed and produced on a yearly basis.                                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said there is no state law precluding a 12-              
 hour day, particularly as it applies mines.  There are plenty of              
 gold mining operations in Alaska that work on the same margins at             
 Fort Knox and pay their employees overtime.  If the employees still           
 want to give up their overtime out of the goodness of their hearts,           
 then there needs to be a recognized process.  He stated there is no           
 recognized process by which those employees have asked for that.              
                                                                               
 Number 2120                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN referred to AS 23.10.410, paragraph (a), and              
 said it delineates what the 10 hours at the mine face is.  He read            
 from the statute, "applies only to work actually performed at the             
 mine face or other place where the work is actually carried on and            
 excludes time for meals, travel to or from the mine site, and                 
 travel between the mine portal and the mine face, whether in going            
 on or off shift, or in going to or returning from meals.  However,            
 an employer shall pay wages for the time worked from the time the             
 miner enters the mine at the mine portal, whether or not work is              
 preformed at the mine face or other place where the work is                   
 actually carried out, until the miner leaves the mine."                       
 Representative Ryan then read from AS 23.10.060, "Payment for                 
 overtime.  (a) An employer who employs employees engaged in                   
 commerce or other business, or in the production of goods or                  
 materials in the state may not employ an employee for a workweek              
 longer than 40 hours or for more than eight hours a day.  This                
 section does not apply to the employment of a person acting in a              
 supervisory capacity.  If an employer finds it necessary to employ            
 an employee in excess for 40 hours a week or eight hours a day,               
 compensation for the overtime at the rate of one and one-half times           
 the regular rate of pay shall be paid."                                       
                                                                               
 Number 2179                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT said the bill that passed last year dealt           
 with the hours of actual work, but did not impact the current                 
 statutes with regards to compensation for the hours worked.                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN said, "No, because the current statutes covered           
 that.  They said if you work more than eight hours, you get --                
 (indisc.) 10 hours at the work face, but two hours of overtime."              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT said the issue discussed last year was              
 the actual number of hours that could be worked.                              
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated that is correct.  He said the overtime               
 factor wasn't addressed as it wasn't on the table.                            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN said it wasn't taken out.                                 
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said it was consistent with existing statute.               
                                                                               
 Number 2212                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG closed the public hearing on HB 68.                         
                                                                               
 Number 2220                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GENE KUBINA asked if there was a committee                     
 substitute.                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG indicated there is a committee substitute,                  
 Version F.  Chairman Rokeberg indicated the Department of Labor has           
 submitted a zero fiscal note.  He also noted the committee                    
 substitute has been adopted.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 2247                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY indicated that the information contained in            
 the facsimile is public information and isn't confidential.                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said he would verify that most businesses             
 use a disclaimer on all their facsimile transmittal sheets because            
 there is a face law that has come down on it.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 2286                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA said he would state his opposition to the               
 passage of the bill.  He said he isn't supportive of the concept of           
 the bill and he doesn't believe that all the options have been                
 reviewed.  Representative Kubina said he thinks there are ways                
 employees can work with their employer so they could work out a pay           
 and salary schedule so our laws don't have to be changed.  He said            
 he also believes that it is possible for the employees to organize            
 as a group, not tied with any recognized collective bargaining                
 unit.  If the workers all signed an agreement saying they want to             
 bargain collectively with their employer without being part of the            
 Laborers or Teamsters, etc., there isn't nothing prohibiting them             
 from that.  If people are saying they can't do this without                   
 collective bargaining, he doesn't believe there is anything saying            
 they have to join the Laborers, Teamsters or United Mine Workers.             
                                                                               
 Number 2344                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Mr. Perkins if the workers at the mine                
 could organize themselves as an independent union, would that be              
 legal under federal and state statute.                                        
                                                                               
 MR. PERKINS said he didn't have that knowledge with him.                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA said he hasn't ever seen anything that says             
 they have be part of the Laborers.  There are independent unions              
 within the state.  He noted he once negotiated a teaching contract            
 and he wasn't part of NEA-Alaska at the time.  Representative                 
 Kubina said even if they didn't do that, he believes the employees            
 could sit down with their employer and work out a wage and salary             
 schedule that would not cost the employer money and would not cost            
 the employees money.  He said he believes there are other options             
 rather than changing the law for a small group of people.                     
 Representative Kubina said since the hearings on the bill have                
 started, he has heard that there are people who signed the                    
 petitions that no longer support the petition.  He said he is                 
 totally appalled at the schedule the employees are currently                  
 working under.  He said, "How anybody can work and go from a night            
 shift with two days off and then to a day shift or visa versa, your           
 body cannot adjust that fast.  Half the people in Valdez work on              
 these shifts 12 on, 12 off and they go from day to night, day to              
 night, the Alyeska ones.  And it's really hard on your body to keep           
 changing from one to the next."                                               
                                                                               
 Number 2471                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG referred to the comment by Representative Brice             
 that there has been little overview and not adequate discussion on            
 the bill and said the committee has had over seven hours of                   
 hearings and two weeks of time for people to provide input.                   
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-8, SIDE B                                                             
 Number 001                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said he hopes Representative Brice wasn't                   
 implying the committee wasn't doing its job.                                  
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said the committee has done a very good job in           
 reviewing the bill.  He said he would question the fact that there            
 is only one committee of referral.                                            
                                                                               
 Number 019                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY referred to Representative Kubina's comment            
 regarding the 12-hour shifts and said he doesn't think it is the              
 same thing as the Fort Knox operation which has to go in 24-hour              
 periods.  There are chemicals that are involved in the processing             
 of the gold, etc., and you can't stop.  There is different training           
 for different employees.  He said he believes this is a unique                
 situation.                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA said he was referring to the Aleyska terminal           
 which is very similar.  They can't stop either.  They're not going            
 to stop the flow.                                                             
                                                                               
 Number 063                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON pointed out that the Alaska Marine Highway              
 System has operated 12 hours on and 12 hour off, week on and week             
 off, for at least the last 20 years.  He said there are other                 
 compensations.  There is no overtime until it goes over 84 hours a            
 week.  He said, "I think what we got to be careful of here is that            
 we don't establish a state with some sort of exclusive                        
 opportunities to meet our operational requirements, but preclude              
 some small operator from having some exclusives."  Representative             
 Hudson indicated concern with where does the overtime apply.  It              
 sounds like the bill says it would apply over 40 hours.  So once              
 they've got three 12-hour shifts in, they would start getting                 
 overtime on their fourth shift.                                               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT said that is correct.                               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON questioned what is being planned as far as              
 the number of hours or days they work before they take time off.              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT noted there is information in the                   
 committee members' files.  Under the proposed plan, they would                
 actually see an increase in the number of overtime hours that they            
 would be paid in any 4-week period of time.                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if it would be over and above what they           
 would have had if they'd received overtime over 8 hours.                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT said no.                                            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON said, "So the cost savings to the company in            
 this negotiated agreement is in the total overtime over say a full            
 40-hour week basis, because if they'd gotten overtime they could              
 work them -- if we give them the approval to go ahead and work 12,            
 which they can't work right now as I understand.  Is that right?              
 They cannot work 12 hours now without -- period."                             
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE THERRIAULT said they can, it is just whether it is             
 affordable.  He noted there was previous testimony that the                   
 economics of the project are predicated on an 8-hour workweek to              
 try and keep the overtime down.  Basically, without the change                
 they're not going to go to 12-hour shifts.  There is a slight                 
 increase in overall salary cost to the company by making the                  
 change.  They feel they will be able to make it up in efficiencies.           
                                                                               
 Number 168                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN said he noticed an interesting article in the             
 Russian Far East News where Amax has a joint venture in Magadan.              
 It's a 7-year project where they will have approximately 350,000              
 ounces of gold a year and 250,000 ounces of silver for a 7-year               
 period.  So considering they have no environmental problems, they             
 have no unions, and they have slave labor wages.  He said he thinks           
 it's gonna balance out in their overall international operations.             
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said that is the parent company of the Fort Knox            
 mine.                                                                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS indicated he would agree with Representative           
 Kubina's remarks.  He said he thinks there is a better place to               
 resolve the issue and he doesn't believe it needs to be brought to            
 the legislature or done by statute.  He said he feels this is just            
 another grain of sand slipping away from what we have in Alaska.              
 He said it is the only place he has ever been in his life where a             
 laboring man can work 40 hours a week and make a living.  He said             
 he couldn't support the bill.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 266                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA read from the committee substitute, page 1,             
 line 10, "the employee and the employer have signed a written                 
 agreement and the written agreement has been filed with the                   
 department;".  He said if they want to hire someone, and if the               
 person won't sign the agreement, they won't get hired.                        
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON said that was a specific question he asked of           
 the general manager.  The general manager said they will hire those           
 people on an 8-hour day and they won't be under that provision.               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said the general manager did say that.  He               
 said if they are going to hire a shovel hand or a haul truck hand,            
 you can't make an exemption for that specific person and keep                 
 everybody going that way.  In those instances where you're doing a            
 very specialized job such as working one of those shovels, it's not           
 a question of being able to say, "No, I'm not going to sign this              
 work (indisc.)."                                                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON said that is precisely what has been entered            
 into the record.                                                              
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said he thinks the committee has worked hard on             
 the bill and he appreciates the interest.  He said the bill is a              
 very difficult bill to vote on as there are competing and                     
 conflicting ideas and philosophies.  This is a very important bill            
 that needs further consideration by the legislature.                          
                                                                               
 Number 368                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RYAN said, "Yes, Mr. Chairman, I hadn't planned on             
 voting to move this bill out of committee.  I was given my marching           
 orders this morning, I'm not happy about that.  I've been coerced             
 before, it's not the first time.  I will have some more further to            
 say about this at a later time.  I'm going to reluctantly vote to             
 move the bill out of committee, but I will not support it on the              
 floor.  And I don't think it's good public policy to go changing              
 labor laws that have taken a lot of years to put in effect and a              
 lot of people's hard work and sweat labor to get.  And to just to             
 change them like this, in this particular circumstances -- and I              
 agree with Representative Sanders that it's just another chink in             
 the armor."                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 407                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY made a motion to move CSHB 69, Version F, to           
 the next committee of referral with individual recommendations and            
 the attached zero fiscal note.                                                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE objected to moving the bill.                             
                                                                               
 Number 428                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KUBINA noted there isn't another committee referral.           
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG said the bill would move to the Rules Committee             
 and then to House floor.                                                      
                                                                               
 A roll call vote was taken.  Representatives Ryan, Hudson, Cowdery            
 and Rokeberg voted in favor of moving the bill.  Representatives              
 Brice, Kubina, Sanders voted against moving the bill.  Committee              
 substitute for HB 68(L&C) moved out of the House Labor and Commerce           
 Committee.                                                                    
                                                                               
 ADJOURNMENT                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG adjourned the House Labor and Commerce Committee            
 meeting at 4:20 p.m.                                                          
                                                                               

Document Name Date/Time Subjects